Auf Der Maur: Commercially, it's also the stubborn people probably hoping that the times will adjust to them and they're kinda sitting tight without being willing to meet halfway or look at what's actually going on around them and try and take from that.

Love: We have that too. We have that narcissism. We think that people are going to acclimate to this record. And I think any great record or change, whether it's Guns 'N' Roses or Alanis or Nirvana or whatever, the world comes to it.

Erlandson: But she's talking about somebody...

Auf Der Maur: You're referring to 30 years ago, not just the past five years where I've been playing music or the past 10 years since I've been in a punk-rock band, you know what I mean?

Erlandson: Somebody stuck in their style, in their little world ... like if we were still playing our 1991 stuff.

Love: You're saying two things though. You're saying people that don't want to change their persona or sound. But what you're saying is ... it interests me because I want to know what you mean. Like take the band I was just referring too. You know who I mean.

Auf Der Maur: See, one's world broadens. I'd say that...

Love: Are they that ambitious, though, that they think that the world-view is gonna come to them? 'Cause that's admirable!

Auf Der Maur: I'm just interpreting it that way. They have evolved within their genre. They had a peak and then they grow. But they're not referring to Cheap Trick. They're not referring, in terms of their world view, they're only willing to get so far...

Love: But they refer to the Stones. They must refer to some things that sound good or else what's the point of music?

Auf Der Maur: Yeah, who knows. Well, if you're stuck in your generation or you're ...

Love: What do you think? They just sit there and listen to Atari Teenage Riot over and over again?

Auf Der Maur: Maybe. Oh, come on. jazz maybe, but in terms of rock...

Erlandson: But growth as a band -- maybe they're too democratic or something. You never know.

Auf Der Maur: Too democratic!

Love: No, it's good, it's good.

Erlandson: Growth as a band, like on this record, you can't compare it. We're not ...

Love: I'm just sort of talking about the follies of our generation and how this small little generation, which if we don't gain control and power -- the Tina Browns and the Paul Allens -- the boomers will influence the minds of all 16-year-olds. So there's got to be ambition in this generation, real ambition. Not like I want to take over the world, but I want to take over the world on my terms and make a building that people can actually go to. That there's a toilet in, instead of a port-a-potty outside.

Auf Der Maur: But there might be a serious short-sightedness going on in general.

Love: You know what it is? Too many boys on the side of the good and too many girls as product right now. Sort of.

Auf Der Maur: There's an imbalance.

Love: It's really imbalanced. It's tragic about the girl thing right now, but I think it'll be fixed.

Auf Der Maur: That's also a good sign, because it's getting to the next side ...

Love: Renewal. Yeah. You can't be a drummer and get rewarded as a girl now. Like all the Sleater-Kinneys and the Babes in Toylands and the L7s, all the people that were like our peers -- gone. If they're not gone, they refuse to write hooks. And they could. You listen to Sleater-Kinney. God, these girls have good voices. They have talent, they have a pop sensibility. I hear it. I hear it. Where is it? Where is it? Never comes, never comes.